Dialog Bersama Presiden Republik Indonesia pada Sesi Antalya Diplomacy Forum (ADF) Talk

Host Auskar Surbakti:
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, Ibu dan Bapak yang terhormat. Welcome. Hoş geldiniz. Selamat datang. I’m Auskar Surbakti, a news and business presenter at TRT World. I hope you’ve been enjoying the entire diplomacy forums so far. It is now my pleasure to welcome and introduce our distinguished guest for this ADF talk session. The president of the Republic of Indonesia, His Excellency Pak Prabowo Subianto. 

Prabowo Subianto became Indonesia’s eighth president in October 2024, after winning the presidential election earlier that year. A former military general and businessman, he received an international education before graduating from the Indonesian Military Academy in 1974 and quickly rose through the ranks of the army’s elite special forces. Transitioning to politics, he co-founded the Gerindra Party in 2008 and ran for president twice before he was appointed Defense Minister in 2019. Three times. Oh, I am sorry. As leader of the world’s third largest democracy. Prabowo Subianto is committed to strengthening Indonesia’s sovereignty, driving economic development, and navigating complex geopolitical challenges all while drawing on his extensive experience, and deep commitment to his nation’s future. 

Bapak Presiden, selamat datang dan terima kasih telah bergabung bersama kita.  Mr. President, welcome and thank you so much for joining us. Before I ask you my first question, Pak,  I just wanted to mention that this holds a special significance for me as an Australian with Indonesian parents from the Karo Highlands in North Sumatra. So on their behalf, I would just like to say Mejuah- juah which is the warmest greeting that you can give in the Karo language. 

Now, Mr. President, as you know, this year’s ADF is held under their theme reclaiming diplomacy in a fragmented world. What does this phrase mean to you exactly in the current global context? And where do you see diplomacy falling short or potentially regaining strength in today’s world? 

Presiden Prabowo Subianto:
Thank you. To be very frank, I tend to be now a bit pessimistic about the success of diplomacy but I realized that we cannot give up on diplomacy. Why do I say I am pessimistic? Because of what we see now, in the reality, the real world what we are witnessing now is actually the carrying out of the age-old adagium, the age-old let us say philosophy of Thucydides, the ancient Greek historian who says, who said that the strong will do what they can and the weak will suffer what they must suffer. So, this adagium is being played out in front of our eyes. What is happening might become right, who has the strengths [and] who has the capacity tend to do what they can do. And this is very, very distressing, very sad, for the rule-based system that has been created after the Second World War by the western powers themselves. So, this for us in the Global South, in the aspiring countries that look up to the west to be very frank that want to create a democracy like the west, we believe in the lessons of the west. We believe in Trias Politica, we believe in freedom of expression, freedom of speech. 

No, I want to really correct myself, you know. Actually, I ran for President four times. I lost three times. So, what I am saying is, I believe in democracy. I was a soldier. I was a general. At one time. I commanded the strongest military force in Indonesia and then I was told to step down in more direct language, I was fired. But, I swore an oath to uphold the constitution and the constitution says very clearly that the president has the supreme power over the armed forces. So when my president asked me to step down, I did not hesitate. I said, “Yes, sir.” 

So what I am saying is, we believe in democracy, we believe in human rights, we believe in the rule-based order but now all of a sudden we see before our eyes, let us say what President Endorgan mentioned, “Innocent children, innocent women, unarmed men being massacred in front of the eyes of the whole world. So, this is what I say. I do believe diplomacy is the only way, the best way, but I tend to be a bit sad, what this means is now every country has to prepare for the worst. This will take resources from us needed to eradicate poverty and eradicate hunger. Now, we have to invest in a strong defense because we do not know what is going to happen next month [or] next week. So this is a bit saddening actually but yeah if you want to ask me, I say  that we have to go through diplomacy but many countries now are assessing, I think, and are preparing for the worst, preparing for the worst. Thank you.

Host Auskar Surbakti:
Well, Indonesia as we know is known as a strong advocate for a more just and balanced global order. It sounds like you want to carry that tradition as well.  From your perspective, what would an ideal global order look like? 

Presiden Prabowo Subianto:
Well, actually, we already have the format. We have the United Nations. We have many institutions which are doing great work; the WHO, UNICEF, FAO (the Food and Agriculture Organization).  They are doing very very great work, overcoming hunger, you know. So, we do have a format. Now, for instance, maybe, you know, there are demands, there are security councils, the permanent members should be increased to represent the reality of this present world. We have big countries like India, big countries like Brazil you know, many countries that represent a big segment of the world population that feel underrepresented in the highest organs of the United Nations. So, actually we already have a good format, but then we are saddened that, you know, this good format that is proven effective in bringing down diseases, saving hundreds of thousands of lives everywhere is in danger of being abandoned. So, I would say let us not reinvent the wheel built on what has been proven to be good, overcome its shortcomings, improve, build on what has been achieved. That’s my outlook, my position. 

Host Auskar Surbakti:
We are also witnessing major shifts in global alignments. For example, the execution of me-first policies, the changing of alliances, multi-polarity. How do you interpret these changes? And what lessons should middle powers like Indonesia draw from these evolving patterns? 

Presiden Prabowo Subianto:
This is very interesting. But, you know, Indonesia by tradition we have always been non-aligned. In fact, we are the founders of the non-line movement together with India, Egypt, at that time Yugoslavia. So, we are the first founders of the non-line movement. And by tradition, every Indonesian government has to maintain this tradition. Otherwise, we will lose popular support. Our people do not want to be engaged into any alliances or blocks, especially military blocks. So, we are, we are by tradition neutral. 

For instance, my philosophy, which I announced early in my campaign, is an ancient Asian Philosophy, an ancient philosophy of the Eastern peoples of the Asiatic civilizations, which is the philosophy taught to us generations by generations which is “One thousand friends too few, one enemy too many”. It is a very clear and simple sentence but very difficult to achieve. One thousand friends too few, one enemy too many. But, this is logical because for instance where I come from Southeast Asia,  South East Asia 50 years ago we were fighting amongst ourselves. We, neighbors, were sending troops to each other’s territories, claiming each other’s territories. This was Southeast Asia 50 years ago, you know. And then, amongst the wise leaders at that certain time at a certain point in history, the leaders of five Southeast Asia countries; Singapore, Malaysia. Thailand, Philippines came to realize,  “Hey, we have urgent, urgent agenda for our people. We have to deal with poverty and hunger. Why do we fight amongst ourselves?” 

Then the idea of ASEAN, Association of Southeast Asian Nations came and lo and behold 50 years. No conflict. We still have differences. But we tend to use diplomacy, we tend to talk and talk and talk and sometimes talk, you know, is very tedious but better to talk than fight, this is our position, you know,  And that’s the Asian Tradition. Sometimes the talk can go on and on and on but in the end, there is some sort of Interaction, some sort of chemistry and we tend to think of the common interest, This is my philosophy also. So, one thousand friends. I want to bring Indonesia to a position of good relations with all the big powers and so that we can be some sort of bridge and mediator, etc, etc, etc. This is our effort. So I announced, when I took over, that I wanted to carry out a policy of the good neighbor. I want to be a good neighbor to all my neighbors and even to outlying powers, the great powers of the world. I want to be on very good terms. I want to respect all the great powers as I hope they would respect us. 

Host Auskar Surbakti:
Mr. President, you touched on this a little earlier, but one of the most pressing challenges facing the world today is the humanitarian crisis in Palestine. In your view, what does this reveal about the current state of global leadership and diplomacy? 

Presiden Prabowo Subianto:
Well, I would like to say that, as I said in my first comment, the situation in Gaza is actually teaching the world that many of the great powers that espouse great ideals now in the eyes of many in the Global South, have fallen short basically. I mean, for instance, many of the western powers, western countries came to Indonesia 30 years ago and came to us always teaching. You must do this, you must do that, human rights. You are not very good in human rights. You are not too democratic. Always come and teach us, and we follow them. We follow them. 

And then, now we see that you come to us, you teach us human rights. But when you see flagrant violation of human rights in front every day, every night on television, many of those who come to teach us, They keep quiet. So, this is saddening, but it is waking up. It makes us wake up. Oh, so that is it. You tell us, we must do this, we must do that, we must do this. And then, you violate or you keep quiet or you accept these violations. How can a six-year-old boy or girl be guilty of anything? How can unarmed mothers be bombed and lose their house and lose everything? I think it is something that is very hard to digest actually. 

And, that is why I try to do what I can, that is why I am traveling tomorrow. Tonight, I will go to Cairo. I will consult with President Sisi, then I am going to Doha and I will go to Amman, consult with King Abdullah. Then, you know, people ask why, “You are so far away, you are in Indonesia.” But, I cannot because my people feel the attack on the innocent people of Gaza, of Palestine, of Lebanon, of Syria, is like attacking them. Indonesia of course is majority Muslim, but I feel also that I must contribute what I can. So, I already, for instance, sent a small medical team together with the UAE. We have a medical field hospital. We are participating in that and we are committed also to build another hospital in Palestine, in the West Bank, maybe also in Gaza and I have already announced that we are willing to accept wounded civilians that need medical care. Also, children and young students who have not gone to school for many years. We are willing to give them scholarships and we already have some Palestinian students already, but not enough, but we are willing to increase that. And of course after they receive [it], they complete their education and they complete their medical treatment. I mean, they must return to their homeland. 

So Indonesia, we’re trying to convince everybody that the only real solution, a permanent solution will come only by a two-state solution with an independent Palestine. But, I also said that at that time, we must also satisfy the concerns of the Israelis. They also must be guaranteed their right for security, their right of existence. I think in the end there should be peaceful collaboration. I think that is the key to real peace. 

Host Auskar Surbakti:
Yes and  we know that you’ll continue to support the Indonesian. Hospital in Garza has been key to providing life-saving medical services in the enclave. Now, If I could turn to the indo-pacific region, we know the region is increasingly becoming a stage for great power rivalry, a potential flash point as a leading voice in asean, the association of Southeast Asia Nations. How does Indonesia plan to manage these tensions? While also working with ASEAN to keep the region peaceful and stable? 

Presiden Prabowo Subianto:
Yes, you know, as many times for many different instances, I said that our only way is engagement, engagement and mutual respect. So, in the end, I always propose collaboration. We have sometimes conflicting territorial claims. This is natural, because we have been subjugated to many centuries of foreign domination of colonialism, of imperialism. Some countries from somewhere came, they seemed to like the wealth of some of our regions and they say, “Okay, now this is ours.” And, they put up their flag, you see. 

After a long period of struggle against colonisation and imperialism. Most of the countries in our region achieved independence. But, still the leftover of centuries, you know, boundaries which are not clear, etc, etc. They are now the heritage given to us that we have to clean [and] clear up all this mess. But, we succeeded in cooperation with Viet Nam. We have several decades of territorial claims and counter-claims, but we have resulted a few months ago. I’m also proposing to my good friend and my good brother the prime minister of Malaysia, “Let’s solve the outstanding issues that we have with Malaysia.” 

I also proposed joint development with the People’s Republic of China (PRC) President Xi, you know, we respect each other’s legal position, but in the meantime why don’t we work together, right? We have overlapping maritime areas/zones. For instance, the PRC claimed historically for thousands of years that Chinese Fishermen have fished in those waters, and we claim for thousands of years. Indonesian fishermen have fished in those waters. So, I said to President Xi, “Why don’t we have joint development? Let’s register how many hundreds of Chinese vessels, how many hundreds of Indonesian vessels within the framework of the international limitations. So that we do not have overfishing. Let’s give licenses and everybody benefits.” 

So, what I told everybody is that 100 percent of zero is zero. So, we might as well work together in the meantime and President Xi agreed. In fact, he agreed very fast. I proposed this to the Vietnamese. I propose this to the Malaysians. So, this is my approach. Let us work together to achieve common prosperity. Every race, every country, every religion in the world aspires to the same thing: life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. Everybody needs the basics, prosperity. There is no prosperity without peace. So, this is my approach. 

Host Auskar Surbakti:
Now becoming president was a hard fought battle, for you. You pointed out that you contested several elections before finally winning last year. Now that you are a leader, what is your vision for Indonesia? A nation of more than 280 million people, highly educated. What do you hope to achieve in your time as president? 

Presiden Prabowo Subianto:
Number one, I have to safeguard the nation’s wealth. Our natural resources, our wealth must be safeguarded to protect it and to make it useful for future generations. That is at most, because without the resources, then it is very difficult to achieve prosperity. Number two, we must have wise, correct and common sense policies that are the duty of every government. In my opinion, after being an amateur historian I studied the history of many civilizations, the key to every country’s well-being and independence is the ability of every country to guarantee food for its people, food security. 

And, I think this is also the realization of the United Nations. The United Nations several years ago said that the future global crisis will be three, what they say is the F, E, and W; food, energy and water. So, likewise in Indonesia, I have to guarantee food for my people. Number two, I have to guarantee energy from my people, and then water. Alhamdulillah, thank God. Indonesia, we have an abundance of water. We have the other way around, sometimes we have too much water and then there is flooding, you see. And, that is our, I would say this is our now, our challenge, right? Like, we must manage our water so that it becomes useful. It doesn’t become a natural disaster. 

And this is also a matter of education, a matter of good governance. So that and then of course prosperity can only be achieved by the grasp of science and technology. Science and technology will enable us to industrialize.  So, education, investment in science technology and in education is very important. In our budget, the number one, the highest item in our budget is education. I think it is the highest in the history of Indonesia. 

Then, also I have rolled out a free meal for every child and every pregnant mother in Indonesia. So, this is a massive program, very ambitious. But, we are getting there. At the end of 2025, we will provide meals for 82.9 million mouths by November 2025. So, this is our program. I am very determined to bring down poverty, especially extreme poverty and I want to eradicate hunger. Nobody must go hungry in a nation that is a member of the G20. Thank you.

Host Auskar Surbakti:
And, finally Mr. President, this year marks 75 years of Indonesia- Turkey diplomatic relations, both nations share a deep, historical bond and strategic partnership. As we look ahead to 2050, which will mark the centenary of this partnership. How do you see that bilateral relationship evolving, especially in addressing shared global challenges? 

Presiden Prabowo Subianto:
I am very optimistic in this case. I am very bullish in the sense that Turkey has a special place in Indonesia, the Indonesian people you know. Indonesia being majority Muslim, the Ottoman Empire being at that time accepted as the leader of the Islamic community, relations go through many centuries, many parts of Indonesia feel the influence of the Ottomans. Many cases we were attacked by the foreign powers, the Ottomans came to the assistance of our sultans. So, there’s this emotional bond. And, I think even now, President Endorgan told us that there are Indonesians coming to Turkey, I think in the figure of 200,000 every year, 200,000 Indonesians will visit Turkey. Usually, after they go on the Umroh, then they will come to Turkey. And, we have 50,000 Turkish citizens coming to Indonesia every year. Can you imagine? We are very far, but this is a close bond. And we are working very good In many fields, so I am very bullish, very optimistic. 

Host Auskar Surbakti:
I can also attest that many Indonesian citizens now call Turkey a home and have set up delicious Indonesian restaurants in Istanbul to my benefit. So that’s a great way of ending. 

Presiden Prabowo Subianto:
You are living here?

Host Auskar Surbakti:
In Istanbul, yes I am, Sir. 

Presiden Prabowo Subianto:
Very smart, very smart.

Host Auskar Surbakti:
I am afraid we could be talking for hours but I know you have a very packed schedule, Bapak Presiden. That does bring us to the end of our discussion. Can we please thank our honored guest His Excellency Prabowo Subiaanto, the president of the Republic of Indonesia.